Dishing about PIV

Right after sex, a part of me wanted to kill him. I felt guilty for this. Evil, in fact. On some level, I was sick. I never wanted to see him again. His smell, his face, his voice all made me cringe.

But he’d also left me there, naked, standing in front of him, with this feeling like he had stolen something from me. What did you just take? Why does this feel like I’ve just been violated? Why do I feel like he has something of mine…something that belongs to me?

It didn’t matter how much I adored him before. It didn’t matter if I was in love with him. It didn’t matter how many times we had or had not previously had intercourse. It did not matter how sweet or loving or rough or careful or wild or intimate or distanced our “love-making” was. It didn’t matter if he was kind afterwards, or distant and cold, or close and nurturing, or friendly and frank, or mysterious and cool. Somewhere deep down, I wanted to beat the shit out of him and take it back, whatever it was. He had it. He’d stolen it. The seething rage filtered through a highly refined adaptation system, one that defanged it, dethorned it, maimed it, renamed it, misconstrued it, reversed it, and wound up as forever after an attempt at damage control. Because then I knew. I knew he could take something from me, something.

And so all interactions were like he was a sort of god, or demon, or shithead little boy who didn’t know how to play fair. “Oh, did Johnny pull your pig tails, break your pencil, and then laugh in your face? That’s cause he likes you, dear. That is how boys show affection to girls.”

So does he love me? I wanted to shout at him, “Well, do you LOVE me asshole? You just hurt me, badly!”

This lands you on level Grade A Psycho Bitch in his eyes in two seconds flat, so we know how this comes out. Be nice. Show him you mean him no harm and maybe he’ll return in kind, with charity, with love. Eventually.

But love for him is violation of my Self. From birth I was prepared to accept this as love. That one day I will grow up and a man will put his dick into me, and this is what it means for him to love you.

So what if afterwards, you feel somewhere deep down inside like a robbery has just taken place, like a chord has snapped, like your personal intimate space has been invaded by another body, one bigger, one that could crush you in a rage, one with power over you, one with a higher societal status, one who society says was born to do this to you. That’s how he shows love.

You are a woman, meant to open. For him. Open.

He invades.

It felt like I was losing my mind, all the time. Every day. A few days would pass in which we would not do that dreadful thing in which I think I am being loved, which is what I want, but also feel like I am being robbed, and afterwards will stress about potential pregnancy. Those days without it would pass and in them, for a moment, I’d hear a whisper: ah, much better, everything is okay now.

I remember between boyfriends or lovers always having these moments. Had them every time I was single, clear as a shot of sunlight through a clearing in a dark forest: I never want to do that again.

But as soon as this voice would emerge, it would get clobbered by a rabid elephant that would stomp it down into the ground: intercourse is normal, you have issues, all people do this, no man will ever love you if you do not give him this, society will laugh at you, other women will laugh at you and tell you how much THEY love it, you’ll end up an unloved spinster with four cats and crazy hair.

Here’s to being a spinster with four cats and crazy hair. Here’s to living in my body so fully that I believe her when she tells me no, that hurts, don’t do that. Here’s to saying, “So what,” when he says he’ll find another woman who will give him that. Here’s to helping him pack his bags when he leaves. Here’s to being called a man-hating lesbian when someone else finds out. Here’s to waking up each and every morning in a body that feels like a home, a beautiful piece of life growing all around me, pulsing and breathing and heating and cooling. Here’s to the rhythm of the moon, not his beatings, coursing through me.



39 thoughts on “Dishing about PIV

  1. PIV is theft. Its amazing I can completely relate to what you’ve said here. Lying there afterwards feeling so completely violated and also feeling it was my fault because I “wanted” it.

  2. Yes, so true. Thanks Goddesses for there being rf blogs where we can tell this truth. To know that our lust is for ourselves, for beauty, for connection, and that society only gives us programming to project it only on men who only and always rob us. When we stop having PIV or any other so-called intimacy with men is when we in earnest start the road to loving ourselves. It’s a long walk to that road. Thanks to you all for walking it with me. I’m so glad you’re all here. And, p.s., there’s some indication (research I read years ago) that the oxytocin hormonal release (that makes childbirth bearable and probably allows most women to survive most rape trauma) creates a hormonal trauma bond that takes about a year to get over. Thus, avoid PIV etc. for a whole year without backsliding and they you will find it easier to stay free. So form your woman-to-woman bonds online or by phone tree or however you need to get through the night of that first year without male PIV or other sexual congress with men. After that something as simple as watching the wind flow through tree branches is better than we ever thought PIV was. The trees never rob us, but only give.

  3. Thank you for that validation. I thought maybe it was time to throw out the analysis for a day and get back to sharing our experiences, and PIV is a major problem for me. It’s been the hardest reality to confront but also the most important for me. I wish more women talked about these feelings and experiences. I know a lot are, but when we come out of the woodworks, then other women will not feel so alone in these experiences.

    I agree with the “wanted” bit. The level of mindfuck that goes on with the whole interaction is so deeply complex that it’s very hard to unravel. Thanks to our sisters who have each put in a piece of the puzzle to help us all understand what is happening to us.

  4. Such a beautiful post, with a beautiful picture to match. I relate completely to what you are saying: I recently have got rid of a Nigel for good.. and I feel violated and used. Drained, more than anything. Men are such vampires. But it’s women’s wisdom like this which heals us.

  5. What a beautiful sentiment about the trees Sally. I am not 1 year out yet. Last time was in October-ish (I think), and even after that, there was some interaction until I moved out (my ex). I instantly felt relieved to be single with a clear mind at the same time for the first time. I had read Intercourse by Dworkin while still in a relationship with a man and realized that I was being traumatized every single day in a relationship where PIV is a constant factor and occurrence. The physical integrity of my own body, being a closed unit, belonging only to me, was being violated and compromised constantly and I didn’t want that. I felt power returning immediately when I validated those feelings (thank you Dworkin!) and honored them by stopping. It’s like some little child or even the woman inside of me who had been banished from her own home came back saying, “Is he finally gone? Can I live here now?” I hadn’t felt like I inhabited my own body and soul for so long.

    Thank you also for walking this with all of us. I hope we can speak on it more. Right now, there is a big push for hypersexualization and even within feminism, it’s about about liberation through sex sex sex and empowerment through lots of SEX. What about the voices of women who do not WANT se sex sex but want sanity, peace, harmony, inner strength, bodily integrity, and stability? These voices need to be raised again I think to offer a counter to all this destructive hypersexualization sweeping through culture. The voices of Wild Women are being drowned by this, and I feel that so many women never get out of the cycle because they don’t even know it is a viable option. I know that was the case with me. Soon as I knew and understood what was going on, it ended.

    Thank you so much for your input about the 1-year thing! I will honest to Goddess throw a party that day to celebrate. The more we know, the better! I will pass along your information. Maybe I can make a post outlining more of the harms of PIV with information like what you just shared. We need to share with our sisters. This kind of knowledge is key. We’ve gotta know ourselves and what is really happening to us to help escape.

    If you have any other secrets to tell like that, please do ;) I will compile these sorts of insights and make one bog post with all the tips at once. <3 and sisterhood

  6. ‘When we stop having PIV or any other so-called intimacy with men is when we in earnest start the road to loving ourselves.’

    Because we are so trained to see ourselves through men’s eyes; of course we then hate ourselves.

    Since I stopped having PIV regularly (not already 1 year yet but almost) I haven’t had one vaginal infection (soemething which used to come back regularly) and it is never itchy down there anymore! Yeah, I think my body was trying to tell me something there…

  7. W4, as a “man-hating lesbian” I want to thank you for this deep insight into what hetero women feel. I often tell my partner how I can’t understand why women ever stay with males. Never having been with one, I am blind to any benefits there might be. You and those who commented above have given me a window onto what y’all think and feel.


  8. This was a fascinating account. As a lifelong lesbian who has never had sex with men, and finds them absolutely horrifying, I am often mystified about what it is straight women see in men. The trauma bonding theory makes sense, so it’s good to break the silence on what is really going on. I often had the feeling that straight women kind of put up with PIV to get other things they wanted from men: social status, money, a big house, better jobs… I could see the wealth of straight couples vs. most lesbian couples I knew. It often seems as if straight women need to tell this lie in order to survive. But this story is about liberation and taking your body back. I’d say anti-PIV truths are the biggest taboos out there, and when your read stuff like this, you know how truly subversive and undermining of patriarchy it really is. Although I face a lot of discrimination as a lesbian, I could never sell my body to a man, and have always felt powerful and free. I feel for the servitude and sex slavery straight women endure.

  9. Thank you so much for this post and for all of your comments. I’m coming up on my year (some time in September I think) of moving towards my own inner sense and decidedly away from men as well and, yes, every day it gets easier..those unconscious conditionings of femininity/submissiveness aren’t so unconscious anymore and every day I’m starting to experience different organic reactions to men of expressed empowerment and disgust at their assumptions of my body as public property, at their disregard of my humanity.

    It was so moving to read your experiences, those final experiences really do stick out huh? Especially if you’re waking up while still engaging in the act.

    I remember that I was reading Mary Daly (either GYN-Ecology or Beyond God the Father) for the first time the last time PIV was done on me and I went into the experience very acutely. I recall feeling a deep sense of not so subtle assumption and pressure on his part as soon as he came into my apt. I remember noticing him starting to engage with me sexually as a way of shutting me up, and remember me feeling like “right, I’m talking too much, this is better, I appreciate this” only because he wouldn’t engage with the conversation like he was (mildly, and I was desperate for any type of communion at the time) and then I remember going into it willingly after that. I remember paying acute attention in that act trying to remember what the fuss was all about (after having experienced deep cravings/withdrawals for it the months before), so I watched and noticed that he would get the deep rushes of “pleasure” every time I felt one of my walls fall. I noticed that I would express a moan when they fell too that I realized later was likely a moan of pain not pleasure, but then patriarchy engrains/disillusions so well that pain is pleasure right? I remember after experiencing what pleasure actually was being done with PIV, officially realizing deep, experientially how disempowering it was because of my awareness in the actual act. And I remember attempting to have a conversation about capitalism or whatever afterwards, and then within the hour, he was back on me. And this was the part that really shook me. He was *completely* disregarding me as a being with the ability to have an opinion at this point, the assumption, the PURE assumption that I was officially his because I gave myself once. And as he rubbed me up to prepare his dick, not looking into my face, not asking me if I wanted it, just going about his business, I had the most intense inner dialogue I think I’ve ever been aware of before. I asked myself if I wanted it. By deeper being said no. (I use processes of kinesthesiology to check most anything). I asked again to be sure. My inner being said no more firmly. I asked like three more times before I realized how scared shitless I was. Like for the first time I actually realized how dangerous the position I was in really was. It was like all the years of blind unconscious acquiescence for a largely inadequate degree of safety finally showed their true root as simply ways to hide my bone shattering fear for the first time. And I breathed deep, mustered all the courage I could and told him in the most calm voice that I could manage that I didn’t want it (something like I wasn’t turned on or something). & It was like he woke up from a deep sleep, like “oh right, you’re still a human, you’re still alive with an opinion and a will, weird”
    & then of course, the next morning he tried it again rubbing his nasty little dick on my leg like a dog and I not so kindly told him that he would hurt himself if he didn’t balls or something right? After that I did everything I could to get him out of my apartment without putting myself in any more danger, practically pushing him out the door on his way out. And after that of course, no more penises, no more men in my personal space (especially when I’m alone), no more letting them collapse my inner walls (which I have been discovering in slowly rebuilding them, that a good portion [perhaps the core?] of my over all strength and wellness is in relation to their presence), and thank MAMA no more thinking something is wrong with me for not creaming over my own oppression!

    So thank you all again, many of what you all wrote brought tears to my eyes. Affirmation. Appreciation. Recognition. Empowerment. May the sisterhood expand. May the sisterhood be all that we need. <3

  10. I am reading this in a bar with wi-fi and I had to keep myself from screaming out in understanding. YES. This is an AMAZING account, and it resonates with me. I never talk about the men who used me… but I only know now that I only want to be around women, to help women, to love women. That’s it. I trust my instincts and I remember my past.


  11. Missfit, your comment holds wisdom really worth repeating and assessing: “Because we are so trained to see ourselves through men’s eyes; of course we then hate ourselves.”

    As rad-fem women, we face that men in general hate us (and all women) and only tolerate and pretend to like us when we are serving them in some way. Thus as rad-fem women, we can face that having been trained to see ourselves as men see us and through their eyes, because men hate us we then in turn have been programmed from birth by man-made culture to hate ourselves and other women.

    Wow! No wonder it is so hard for us to get along in the sisterhood. More reason to be patient and forgiving of women even though as radical feminists we learn not to extend patience, tolerance or forgiveness to men because their deceit, destruction and hypocrisy as a sex class never change.

    This is such a powerful post from W4 and sparking powerful comments!

  12. To W4 saying: “It’s like some little child or even the woman inside of me who had been banished from her own home came back saying, “Is he finally gone? Can I live here now?” I hadn’t felt like I inhabited my own body and soul for so long. … Soon as I knew and understood what was going on, it ended.” Me, too.

    Re: getting the word out, the mega-forces of mass patriarchal media are arrayed against us (which is why the global buy-up of mass media channels and relaxation of anti-trust laws since the 80’s plus gonzo porn and all of the rot dispensed to women desperately trying to fit in from teen years forward when being in a social group is so primate-important). Seventeen magazine this month has a full-page Maybelline ad pitched to teens where the girl wears sparkly green nail polish on one hand, pink on the other (identity politics about style) and also a slave ring with chain on one hand (yes, men get to own you in your sparkly identity, ooh and won’t it be fun). That is the message and the massage. (My undergrad major was communications in the 70’s when it meant something and wasn’t all pomo corporate babble.)

    We definitely need witchcraft and all of the elements of Nature and every available Goddess to overcome this!

    And we definitely need young women who are on the ground with their young peers being mentally manipulated 24/7 as well as those of us older witches who were around from the 70’s to watch the start of the patriarchal modern technological onslaught, diversions and efforts to fragment sisterhood with side issues when the key point is that women are dying, if not literally then figuratively, every day everywhere all the time.

    May the Supreme Witch unleash the witch in every woman tonight under star bright and the Full Moon tonight!!!!! So Be it, So Be Our-Selves, So Be our Victory.

  13. What you’re feeling is consistent with the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. You would most likely benefit from talking to a licensed mental health professional of some variety. If you are in or near a medium to large metropolitan area you should be able to find someone compatible with your worldview.

  14. Right because if a woman does not enjoy a man shoving his dick in her, probably she has a psychological disorder.

    Listen to your suggestion.

    All women living in patriarchy suffer varying degrees of post traumatic stress, and most of them are sent to shrinks to get them to be “normal” again, aka penis-compliant and okay with sex with males.


    TheRapists will have us convinced that it’s all normal and that everyone should try it. No. We live in a rapist culture, male supremacist arrangement.

    Wake up.

  15. Also, I DID have PTSD. Stopped having sex with males. All symptoms stopped. There is no reason why all women should be psychologically conditioned to have sex with men. The fact that it takes so much cultural coercion, a concert of people and institutions and media and then the male himself all working together to raise women who want men to stick their dicks in them, says something about how “natural” the practice is.

    Women who hate sex with men are psychologically healthy.

  16. Yisheng I had to take a break from this post after writing it, so I am behind on responding to comments, but I read your comment and wanted to hug you!!! I am finding my sisters. It’s amazing how letting go of men just opens the doors wide open to know women in ways never even seen before.

    Slipping into the background….. :)

  17. That was really beautiful to read as well! I really enjoyed hearing about your experience too. Yes, we are not alone. I am sorry for getting back so late, but this post took something out of me to put out there in the open, so I was hesitating returning to the convo right away. I’m back now, and so glad, too, because this comment of yours is like inhaling! And exhaling too!! I completely relate with being acutely aware for the first time. I was in a relationship when I read Intercourse (followed by 4 more Dworkin books, then immediately Gyn/Ecology) and I recall the first time we were intimate after that. It was just NO all the way. I could hear MY own will, not just his. CENTERING in me, what I want, who I am, as a whole person, and realizing that I do not WANT him. At all.

    They suck the life out of us like vampires. And you are so right that they GET OFF on overstepping our boundaries. It is part of their M.O. and we are supposed to balance this by getting off on having our boundaries crossed. Well, sorry, I’m not really built like that, and would prefer not experiencing agony of blokes because my status as female in this society is so degraded that the only way to feel human is to let a male use me.

    All around….I see my sisters….it’s summertime now and it’s killing me. We are the sex class. We are FOR sex. We are FOR them to stick their dicks in in this world. We’re like feeding cattle. It makes me sick and I hate them.

    Celibacy is SO underrated. I am glad to be getting to know other women who are on this path too <3

  18. Sheila thank you for your input. I think this part right here, ” I often had the feeling that straight women kind of put up with PIV to get other things they wanted from men: social status, money, a big house, better jobs.” Yes, that is it, but the part about feeling HUMAN is really big as a straight woman. We are not just impoverished of status, money, a home, a good job. Our very HUMANITY is stripped from us as women in patriarchy. We are the porn and baby factories. The definition of what we are is synonymous with degradation. My introduction to PIV was as a teenage girl being overpowered by a grown man, so I was trauma bonded to males in general before lesbianism even showed up on the radar of “maybe I am this” and I also was put in my PLACE before I could even consider my sexuality as something for ME to learn about, explore, and get to know.

    We are so so so so so so so soooooooooo GROOMED.

    I do not know how lesbians manage to side-step that. Surely you experience much of the same grooming, if not exactly the same grooming, yet you consciously make the choice to not have PIV with men. How does that work? I would like to understand this better because it would help me see where perhaps I could look into myself to find strength independent of males. Of course radfem lit had been extremely helpful, but I would love to hear directly from Lesbians how this was.

  19. Fare thank you for your input. We are standing from different reference points, but reaching the same conclusion: avoid males.

    I understand why we end up with them in the first place, but do not understand how you dodged that bullet. Our unique experiences are a good point where we could probably exchange and share and learn and strengthen female bonding and sisterhood. I think it’s a good point of reference and solidarity.

  20. <3 It's also so hard to deprogram. That internalized hate creeps back up when I have a bad day or am very stressed. I find myself falling back into hating my body. Then I just look around myself. See women walking by in short skirts next to fully-dressed men. I imagine their outfits reversed. Then my brain instantly clicks back on and realizes what is going on. It works every time. I get all feisty when I do this and want to hold up my arms in the males' faces to show off my armpit hair (but I don't actually do this :) ) Then I get ragey, very very ragey, to hear in my head "we are the sex caste" over and over as I look at woman after woman done up like a sex treat and man after man dressed like someone isn't the definition of sex.

  21. >Right because if a woman does not enjoy a man shoving his dick in her, probably she has a psychological disorder.

    Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. Of course there’s nothing wrong with not enjoying penetration or penises of any variety — but that’s only tangentially related to what I’m trying to say. Doing something you dislike doesn’t result in the kind of feelings you’re having. What you’re describing is trauma, not lack of enjoyment.

    Consensual sex between two people that trust each other is something that I think we both agree is a healthy, positive activity. Hence, the act of consensual sex between you and someone you trust, or some part of the act, making you feel like you’re “losing [your] mind, all the time”, is a huge red flag.

    You’ve written previously about sexual abuse you’ve experienced. Sexual abuse is obviously a vile and horrible thing to do to someone, and not surprisingly it can cause major emotional damage. Being sexually penetrated against your wishes can cause future acts of sexual penetration under any circumstances to trigger flashbacks or other negative emotions. Your choosing to avoid sexual penetration because of its triggering effects is not relieving you of your emotional sickness; it’s simply circumventing it so you don’t have to think about it.

    I have absolutely no desire to change what you do or do not enjoy, sexually or otherwise. You are letting your past experiences, and the people that forced those experiences on you, control you. My concern is not that you DON’T like being sexually penetrated; my concern is that you CAN’T like being sexually penetrated. The people in your life that have done these horrible things to you and your body are oppressing you and continuing to oppress you as long as you are unable to make that decision for yourself.

    What I want is for you to empower yourself to make the decisions about whether you like or dislike being penetrated, or whether you think it is natural or unnatural, and so on, for yourself. Because right now, all your opinions have been made for you by everyone that’s raped you.

  22. So, Anonymous, you can pitch the choice and cotton-ceiling and “your emotional sickness” blaming and shaming rhetoric elsewhere to those who CAN enjoy getting false vaginas surgically installed or those who CAN enjoy anal penetration or those who CAN (NOT) see through your obvious agenda. This is a RF blog supportive of women seeking freedom from sex with penises, among other goals. Your rhetoric about “Consensual sex between two people that trust each other” ignores the reality of societal Stockholm syndrome for woman-born women and is groupthink woman-hating liberalese that truncates thought and means nothing. There are other places your asinine rhetoric is more welcome
    — as I trust you know — because the loyal RF WBW here who read W4 don’t care what you say or think. And that’s all I’m going to write to you, Anonymous. Bye bye.

    May I suggest that the real RF WBW who come here in turn ignore Anonymous? The best way to stop misogyny is to pull our gynergy away from it, and starting with this jerkwad Anonymous is a good place to practice.

  23. I’m having some trouble understanding what you just wrote, so I’m going to try and work through your post segment by segment. If there’s anything I’ve misunderstood, I’m happy to hear more about your perspective.

    > choice and cotton-ceiling and “your emotional sickness” blaming and shaming rhetoric

    Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone has or gets problems both physical and mental, and none of these problems make us worse people nor should they merit any shame.

    > those who CAN enjoy getting false vaginas surgically installed or those who CAN enjoy anal penetration

    What do you mean by “false vaginas”? The concave area constructed during sex reassignment surgery, or is this a metaphor?

    What does anal have to do with anything? Penetration is penetration regardless of what organ is being penetrated or what’s penetrating it, and unwanted penetration of any sort can cause traumatic stress. The details are different but the effect is the same.

    >who CAN (NOT) see through your obvious agenda.

    What agenda do you believe me to have?

    >women seeking freedom from sex with penises

    What is freedom without choice? Someone suffering from post-traumatic stress is no more free from participating in activties that activate psychiatric triggers than you or I am free from playing on train tracks.

    >ignores the reality of societal Stockholm syndrome for woman-born women

    Not that I’m aware of. We both know societal pressures are extant, active, and neither fair nor equal, but that doesn’t mean that there is reason to reject all societal pressures by default. The best decision is an informed decision, no?

    >groupthink woman-hating liberalese that truncates thought and means nothing

    Why? How? What are you even talking about?

    >The best way to stop misogyny is to pull our gynergy away from it

    How is wanting someone to be able to make decisions for themselves without being unfairly influenced by post-traumatic stress, societal values, or anything else at all misogynistic?

    What is gynergy? How is it measured?

  24. “Consensual sex between two people that trust each other is something that I think we both agree is a healthy, positive activity.”

    No, we do not agree–at all.

    Men should not be putting their dicks in women. Period. The act itself is traumatic, especially within patriarchy. I do not think men putting their dicks into women is healthy AT ALL. It is the root of women’s oppression and an act of domination–men’s domination over women.

  25. Thank you Sally. I am torn about whether or not to delete those comments. I think I will cease to allow any further comments from this person and leave it at that. I don’t have the gynergy to do this on my own blog.

  26. That is the last comment I will allow on here of this nature. Your comments are misguided and seamlessly consistent with misogynist rhetoric.

    If you want to comment further, first read:

    Intercourse by Andrea Dworkin
    Sexual Politics by Kate Millett
    Loving to Survive by Graham

    Then you can comment further.

    Full stop.

  27. The thanks are all to you, W4, for writing what women need in order to feel validated from your direct experience of PIV (and the connected dicks) that so many of us share! Anonymous is just a dick. And I get how you wouldn’t have the gynergy both to keep such an awesome blog current and to deal with his misogyny. He reminds me of why it is so difficult to break free, and none of his ilk is worth our time. Spiraling onward. Saw a gorgeous triple-winged dragonfly today and she gave me a big wink, and then flew spirals around my path. That’s what we’re talking about … What’s next, and it won’t have dicks in it.

  28. Re-reading Mary Daly’s Gyn/Ecology about the background where the Wild selves of the witchy Women of Be-ing (who we really are, sisters of triple winged dragon flies) Live and Spiral On. (It’s online:

    She had inspiring things to write, as do you, W4, about power to the Witch and the Woman in Me (and Thee and All Woman-Born [of and as] Women). Thank you for affirmatively Be-ing and being connected where we live best, where the Wild Witch flows for magical change. Oh Sisters I have Hopping Hope and Brazen Calling for Flying through and transforming the badlands and badtimes to a better World of Womankind! “Nothing can erase my world, my world is a world of Grrrrrrrrls.”

  29. This is a great piece, thank you for sharing. I am 5 years post PIV (and post men, I should add) and have never felt better in my life. The longer you reject it, the stronger you get.

  30. I completely agree. It’s getting easier all the time. I am at a point now where I really cannot remember or understand why I ever did it in the first place.

    Congrats on your 5-year-liberty!

  31. I hate it, to be honest. Many times, half-way through, I have to stop the entire thing because it’s just too hard to endure – even though I only partake because I think it’s what I have to do so my partner won’t leave me. Then, when I stop, I’m wrong. I’m wrong for not satisfying them.

    Why? Why do I feel like the only way a man will love me if if I sit through intercourse? Why do I feel like anytime a man wants me to fall for him, it’s just so he can get into my pants?

    Why is it that I must bare through my entire life being an item of only sex? Do we as women have no other worth?

  32. Seriously, just switch teams. Don’t be “out” among the insanely political GLBTQQetcwtf’s but just decide to start seeing if you might find companionship (then possibly more) an option with another woman or as W4 puts it, wim. Men are too porn-sick in this century to be good mates. Why should you miss out on affection? Thinking you ever wanted PIV was just mental and media and man-made programming. Trust me. There was a time I thought I loved it, but now that I’m free of it (or the craving for it), I am so glad to know myself as an embodiment of Life Energy in Wim form and I understand non-PIV sensuality about daily living in an entirely different and better way.

    Radical acceptance that men only want women for sex objects (breeders, fuckholes, we’ve heard and as RFs believe the words) will free you. That’s how they are. That’s how it is. It’s not going to change by wringing our hands or storming the state house. It might change for you, though, if you start going after what you want — mutual respect, caring, touching comfort, real friendship, reciprocity, being honored for your Be-ing and enjoying another’s Be-ing in turn. A man will never give you that. They don’t know how. They only know how to pretend until they, as you put it, get into your pants. That’s all they ever want. If you fight it, you lose. If you go another way, you win.

    Radical acceptance means I accept that a shark is a shark (a man is a man) and I don’t want to swim anywhere near sharks (or men). It doesn’t mean that I hate sharks, but it also means that I know to keep my distance. Life once had T.Rex in it; now extinct. Dinosaurs transformed through evolution into birds. Sounds like a good trade. Life seems to experiment with lots of forms that don’t work out. Men are probably in that category. Maybe us as wim (women) too. Maybe not. Elephants may be headed for extinction at male hands; but their consciousness and lovingkindness of family will evolve somehow in another way, and not be lost, because the good parts of Life always reform and recombine.

    Our odds of wim-species are better than the men’s; then we might have the second of our x sex chromosomes re-switch back on for parthenogenesis as reproduction. Life does things like that. But in any event who’s in love with the primate form? Bodies come and go in Life. Consciousness and connection and, yes, it’s hokey, but love of the lovable, lasts. Love yourself. Love other wim. Detach in kindness from men as a group on its way to extinction, despise men’s bad behavior but don’t wallow in the angst, avoid men wherever possible, but mainly don’t think of them at all (unless your safety or survival requires it).

    How’s this for a spinning takeoff from another comment?

  33. I have to admit, I cannot see that much psychological merit in abstaining from PiV. I have been doing that (abstaining) for all my life, and it doesn’t feel special. It just … is the way it is. Normal. I don’t feel enlightened or “whole” or something, the way you all describe it. In spite of my freedom, I still feel very sad and lonely and afraid most of the time.
    I did notice that I never get UTI and stuff, while other women have them all the time, but it is hard to feel the absence of pain.I will have to give you that: PiV is so detrimental on a plain, physical level, that, since the question has been raised, it baffles me why women still engage in it, and so often. UTI, painful, and sometimes even affecting the kidneys, is named “honeymoon disease”, its main cause well known. There is the pregnancy scare. There are the side-effects of hormonal contraception. There is the common refusal of men to use condoms. From an outsider’s point of view, it doesn’t make an awful lot of sense.

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